Den eneste sande Gud.

Ofte bad Jesus til Gud, som han kaldte sin Fader, og han lærte andre at gøre det samme. Nogle få timer før sin død bad Jesus en bøn sammen med sine apostle, hvori han sagde; ”Fader, timen er kommet; herliggør din søn, for at Sønnen kan herliggøre dig. Dette betyder evigt liv: at de lærer dig at kende, den eneste sande Gud, og den som du har udsendt, Jesus Kristus.(Joh.17:1, 3)
Lagde du mærke til at Jesus bad til en som han kaldte ”den eneste sande Gud”? Derefter pegede han på Guds overordnede stilling, idet han sagde: ”Så herliggør du mig nu, Fader, hos dig selv med den herlighed som jeg havde hos dig før verden blev til.” (Joh.17:5) Når Jesus her bad til Gud om at han måtte være hos Gud, hvordan kunne Jesus så samtidig selv være ”den eneste sande Gud”? Lad os undersøge det.
Nogle få timer efter at Jesus havde bedt denne bøn, blev han henrettet. Men han var ikke død i ret lang tid – kun fra fredag midt på eftermiddagen og indtil søndag morgen. ”Denne Jesus har Gud oprejst, hvilket vi alle er vidner om,” skrev apostelen Peter. Kunne Jesus have oprejst sig selv? Overhovedet ikke, for Bibelen siger at ”de døde ved ingenting”. (Præd.9:5) Jesus blev oprejst af sin himmelske Fader, ”den eneste sande Gud”.
Ikke længe efter blev en af Jesu disciple, Stefanus, dræbt af sine religiøse forfølgere. Lige før han blev stenet, fik han et syn: ”Se! Jeg ser himlene åbnede og Menneskesønnen stående ved Guds højre hånd.” (Apg.7:56) Stefanus så Jesus, ”Menneskesønnen”, stå ”ved Guds højre hånd”. En sådan situation havde Jesus også været i da han var ”hos” Gud før han kom til jorden.
Senere, efter at Stefanus var blevet henrettet, viste Jesus sig mirakuløst for Saulus, der senere blev kendt ved sit romerske navn, Paulus. Da Paulus var i Athen i Grækenland, talte han om ”den Gud der har frembragt verden og alt hvad der er i den”. Paulus sagde at denne Gud – ”den eneste sande Gud” – ville ”dømme den beboede jord med retfærdighed ved en mand som han har udnævnt, og det har han givet alle en garanti for, idet han har oprejst ham fra de døde”. (Apg.17:31) Paulus beskriver her Jesus Kristus som ”en mand” – altså en der er ringere end Gud – og som Gud havde taget tilbage til himmelen.
Så var der apostelen Johannes. Han beskrev også Jesus som værende underordnet Gud. Han sagde for eksempel at han havde skrevet sit evangelium så læserne kunne få tro på at ”Jesus [var] Messias, Guds søn.” (Joh.20:31) Johannes fik også et syn ind i himmelen hvor han så ”Lammet”, der i Joh.1:29 identificeres som Jesus Kristus. Han så Lammet sammen med 144.000 andre, som Johannes fortæller ”er blevet købt fra jorden”. Johannes forklarer at de 144.000 har lammets ”navn og dets Faders navn skrevet på deres pander”. (Åb.14:1, 3)
Kan ”Lammet” være den samme som sin Fader? Selvfølgelig ikke. I Bibelen skildres de som to forskellige personer. De har endda hver sit navn.
Som du lige har set, er Jesus navnet på Lammet, Guds søn. Men hvad er dets Faders navn? Det er nævnt tusindvis af gange i Bibelen. I Salme 83:18 står der for eksempel: ”Du, hvis navn er Jehova, du alene er den højeste over hele jorden.” Desværre har man i mange oversættelser af Bibelen erstattet Guds navn, Jehova, med ”HERREN”, stavet med store bogstaver for at adskille Jehova fra andre der kaldes herrer. Et eksempel herpå kan du se i den autoriserede oversættelse af 1931 i Salme 110:1. Men i mange bibeloversættelser er Guds navn igen blevet indsat der hvor det med rette hører hjemme.
American Standard Version (1901) er et eksempel på en bibeloversættelse der har ført Guds navn tilbage hvor det hører hjemme. I forordet siges der: ”Den amerikanske revisionskomité er efter nøje overvejelse nået til den enige overbevisning at en jødisk overtro som gik ud på at det guddommelige Navn var for helligt til at blive udtalt, ikke længere bør sætte sit præg på den engelske eller nogen anden udgave af Det gamle Testamente, hvilket den heldigvis heller ikke gør i de utallige udgaver som er udarbejdet af nutidens missionærer.”
Hvordan så med læren om at Jehova og Jesus Kristus i virkeligheden er en og samme Gud? (Det er jo dét treenighedslæren hævder). I tidsskriftet The Living Pulpit for april-juni 1999 defineres treenighedslæren på denne måde: ”Der er én Gud og Fader, én Herre Jesus Kristus og én Helligånd – tre ’personer’ … som i deres inderste er én og samme Gud …; tre personer som er Gud i samme grad, med de samme karakteregenskaber, og dog forskellige, kendt på deres særegne træk.”
Hvem står bag denne indviklede lære? Tidsskriftet Christian Century i udgaven for 20.-27. maj 1998 citerer en præst som indrømmer at treenighedsdogmet er ”kirkens lære snarere end Jesu lære”. Treenighedsdogmet stammer altså ikke fra Jesus, er det da i overensstemmelse med hans lære?
Jesus lærte sine disciple at bede: ”Vor Fader, du som er i Himlene! Helliget vorde dit navn.” Vor himmelske Fader, hvis navn er Jehova, fremstilles i Bibelen som værende overordnet sin søn. Der siges blandt andet at Jehova er ”fra evighed til evighed”. Dette står i modsætning til hvad Bibelen siger om Jesus, nemlig at han er ”al skabnings førstefødte”. At han er underordnet Gud, ses af Jesu egen udtalelse: ”Faderen er større end jeg.” Alligevel hævder treenighedslæren altså at Faderen og Sønnen ”er Gud i samme grad”.
At sønnen virkelig er underordnet Gud, og at Gud, Faderen, er en selvstændig person, fremgår også af Jesu bønner. For eksempel bad han denne bøn før han blev henrettet: ”Fader, hvis du vil, så tag dette bæger bort fra mig. Dog lad ikke min men din vilje ske.” (Luk.22:42) Hvis Gud og Jesus ”er én og samme Gud”, hvordan kunne Jesu ønske da adskille sig fra hans Faders vilje?
Og ligeledes, hvis Gud og Jesus er den samme, hvordan kunne den ene af dem da vide noget som den anden ikke var klar over? Jesus sagde for eksempel om tidspunktet for hvornår Gud ville eksekvere dom over jorden: ”Men den dag eller time kender ingen, ikke engang englene i himmelen, ja ikke engang Sønnen, kun Faderen. (Mar.13:32)
Treenighedslæren stammer hverken fra Jesus eller fra de første kristne. Det er tidligere blevet nævnt er den ”kirkens lære”. I den udgave af The Living Pulpit som i 1999 behandlede treenighedslæren, står der: ”Nogle gange er det som om at alle tror at treenighedslæren er en kristen teologisk lære,” men, siger tidsskriftet er læren ikke ”et bibelsk begreb”.
Hvis du kikker i New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), så vil du finde en detaljeret behandling af treenighedslæren og New Catholic Encyclopedia indrømmer: ”Treenighedsdogmet er, når alt kommer til alt, … opfundet i slutningen af det 4. århundrede. … Formuleringen ”én Gud i tre personer” var ikke helt fastlagt og ikke fuldt optaget i det kristne liv og den kristne trosbekendelse før i slutningen af det 4. århundrede.”
Professor Martin Werner, universitetet i Bern, Schweiz, har udtalt: ”Når som helst Jesu forhold til Gud, Faderen, bringes på bane i Ny Testamente, hvad enten det er med henvisning til hans fremtræden som menneske eller til hans stilling som Messias, forstås og fremstilles det som klart underordnet.” Jesu og de første kristnes lære var klart nok helt anderledes end den treenighedslære der fremholdes i kirkerne. Men hvor stammer treenighedslæren så fra, og hvordan er den kommet ind i kirkerne?
I Bibelen kan du læse om mange forskellige guder og gudinder som folk tilbad i forskellige lande, deriblandt Astarte, Milkom, Kemosj og Molek. Selv i det gamle Israel var der et tidspunkt mange troede at Baal var den sande Gud. Jehovas profet Elias stillede dem derfor overfor et valg: ”Hvis Jehova er den sande Gud, så følg ham; men hvis det er Baal, så følg ham.” (1.Kong.18:21)
Også det at tilbede hedenske guder i form af treheder, eller triader, var meget almindeligt før Jesus blev født. ”Fra Egypten kom tankerne om en guddommelig treenighed,” skrev historikeren Will Durant. James Hastings skrev i opslagsværket Encyclopædia of Religions and Ethics: I Indisk religion, f.eks., møder vi treheden Brahma, Shiva og Vishnu, og i egyptisk religion treheden Osiris, Isis og Horus.”
Som du selv har set, er der mange Guder. Erkendte de første kristne det? Betragtede de Jesus som den almægtige Gud? Hvad mener du?

Fader vor, Du som er i computeren!
Helliget vorde Dit navn, komme Din computer,
ske Din vilje som i computeren, således også på jorden
giv os i dag vort daglige brød, og forlad os vor skyld, som også vi forlader vore skyldnere, og led os ikke i fristelse, men frels os fra det onde. Thi Dit er computeren og magten og æren i evighed. Amen.

Hvorfor er der så mange guder på jorden?
1. Er det fordi menneskene ønsker at tro på en højere magt?
2. Er det fordi der har været mange forskellige væsner fra det
ydre rum, der overbeviste menneskene om at de var en gud
af navn.
Den gud de fleste mennesker tilbeder på Jorden er faktisk en
jordisk Gud, så han kan af den grund ikke være universiel.
Hvordan kan Gud være almægtig i universiel forstand, når
Gud kun har jordisk magt?

at, jeg ikke behøver gamle eller for så vidt nye skrifter, for at mærke Gud.
Gud er alle vegne også i hver af os, om vi er bevidst om det eller ej.
Jeg behøver, hverken salmer eller evangelier, endsige ritualer for at styrke eller bevise min tro for Gud - beviset er i mit hjerte og da gud jo er overalt, er min tro heller ikke skjult og bør bevises.
Heller ikke ved, at jeg i ritualer eller indmelding i nogen bestemt trosretning, vedkender noget som helst for omgivelserne - eller prøver at overbevise andre om min tro -
Hvis de spørger, ja så svarer jeg på, hvordan min tro er -
Men af respekt for andre og deres frie viljes valg, mener jeg ikke man skal prædike for andre, hvad der er den "rigtige" måde at tro på.
Og henvisninger til gamle skrifter er ret kedsommeligt og slet ikke up to date,
få tror alligevel på, at de er særlige autentiske fordi de har været i for mange hænder og for mange mundtlige overleveringer.
Mennesket former alting hen af vejen og århundrende, som tiden går -
Og de former dem i DERES billede, efter deres overbevisning - sådan er det.
Så at kigge i gamle skrifter, for at finde beviser i formuleringen, tja så længe garantien for ægtheden ikke er til stede, er det vel ligegyldigt ikke -
Bibelen er former af den katolske kirke, som reviderede den ekstremt kraftigt i middelaldren, efter deres for godt befindende, for at holde fårene i folden.
Så min holdning er : find ind til din egen tro.
Den du føler er rigtig for dig, i dit liv.
Form den selv, lyt gerne til andre, men hold dig fri af forførelsen, brug hjerte og hoved og mærk efter - så går man ikke fejl.

Med smil i hjertet og fuglesang i ørene
guller

++++++++++???????---¤^¤---##§§§§½½½½§

Hmm...Er du Jehovas vidne?

Jeg har den samme tro som Jesus.

Du tror du selv er Gud???

...mener du Gud "kun" har jordisk magt? I Bibelen bliver Han kaldt universets suveræn, og det fortælles blandt andet han "hænger jorden på intet". Altså må han også have magt over vort univers.

Jesus troede at hans himmelske Far var Gud.

set det formuleret før - ganske forfriskende
:-)
vh. guller

Det var sådan historikerne fremstillede Jesus i det gamle testamente, for der er kun en sand kraft og kilde; Gud

Der siger Jesus "JEG ER" om sig selv! Altså var Jesus ikke i tvivl om han var Gud. Det er kun Jehovas Vidner, muslimer osv. der endnu har slør for øjnene.

Hvorfor denne sandhed?
Fordi Gud er i alt levende på denne jord!
Læs: Gud er allestedsnærværende

Og hvad kaldte han så sin far mener du?

Jesus sagde: "Jeg er den jeg er." Han sagde ikke: "Jeg er Gud." Jeg forstår ikke helt dit argument. Han er den han er, betyder ikke andet end at han er Jesus Kristus, eller at han er Guds søn. Prøv at forklare dig nærmere.

I Johannes 17:6 siger Jesus: "Jeg har åbenbaret dit navn for de mennesker, du tog ud af verden og gav mig; de var dine, og du har givet mig dem, og de har holdt fast ved dit ord."
Guds navn er Jehova.

Så du er Jehovas vidne? Kan jeg tro på det? Nogle steder sker det at folk udgiver sig for at være det! Men det kender du vel til?

som der står i Bibelen, den der har set Jesus har set Faderen. I Johannes Evangeliet kapitel 14
"Jeres hjerte må ikke forfærdes! Tro på Gud, og tro på mig! I min faders hus er der mange boliger; hvis ikke, ville jeg så have sagt, at jeg går bort for at gøre en plads rede for jer? Og når jeg er gået bort og har gjort en plads rede for jer, kommer jeg igen og tager jer til mig, for at også I skal være, hvor jeg er. Og hvor jeg går hen, derhen kender I vejen.« Thomas sagde til ham: »Herre, vi ved ikke, hvor du går hen, hvordan kan vi så kende vejen?« Jesus sagde til ham: »Jeg er vejen og sandheden og livet; ingen kommer til Faderen uden ved mig. Kender I mig, vil I også kende min fader. Og fra nu af kender I ham og har set ham.« Filip sagde til ham: »Herre, vis os Faderen, og det er nok for os.« Jesus sagde til ham: »Så lang tid har jeg været hos jer, og du kender mig ikke, Filip? Den, der har set mig, har set Faderen; hvordan kan du så sige: Vis os Faderen? Tror du ikke, at jeg er i Faderen, og Faderen er i mig? De ord, jeg siger til jer, taler jeg ikke af mig selv; men Faderen, som bliver i mig, gør sine gerninger. Tro mig, at jeg er i Faderen, og Faderen er i mig; hvis ikke, så tro på grund af selve gerningerne. Sandelig, sandelig siger jeg jer: Den, der tror på mig, han skal også gøre de gerninger, jeg gør, ja, gøre større gerninger end dem, for jeg går til Faderen; og hvad I end beder om i mit navn, det vil jeg gøre, for at Faderen må blive herliggjort i Sønnen. Beder I mig om noget i mit navn, vil jeg gøre det.
Løftet om en anden talsmand
Elsker I mig, så hold mine bud; og jeg vil bede Faderen, og han vil give jer en anden talsmand, som skal være hos jer til evig tid: sandhedens ånd, som verden ikke kan tage imod, fordi den hverken ser eller kender den. I kender den, for den bliver hos jer og skal være i jer. Jeg vil ikke efterlade jer faderløse; jeg kommer til jer. Endnu en kort tid, og verden ser mig ikke længere, men I ser mig, for jeg lever, og I skal leve. Den dag skal I erkende, at jeg er i min fader, og I er i mig og jeg i jer. v21 Den, der har mine bud og holder dem, han er den, der elsker mig; og den, der elsker mig, skal elskes af min fader; også jeg skal elske ham og give mig til kende for ham.«
Hvad angår muslimer og jehovas vidner så er der jo mange boliger i Himlen. Og Jesus har mange flokke han skal lede.
Johannes Evangeliet kapitel 10 fra vers 14: Jeg er den gode hyrde. Jeg kender mine får, og mine får kender mig, ligesom Faderen kender mig, og jeg kender Faderen; og jeg sætter mit liv til for fårene. Jeg har også andre får, som ikke hører til denne fold; også dem skal jeg lede, og de skal høre min røst, og der skal blive én hjord, én hyrde."
Katarin@

Skal prøve at give forklaring på JEG ER: I 2. mosebog kap 3 v6 "Og han sagde: »Jeg er din faders Gud, Abrahams Gud, Isaks Gud og Jakobs Gud.« fra 2 mosebog kap 3 v15 "Gud sagde videre til Moses: »Sådan skal du sige til israelitterne: Jahve, jeres fædres Gud, Abrahams Gud, Isaks Gud og Jakobs Gud, har sendt mig til jer. Det er mit navn til evig tid, og sådan skal jeg kaldes i slægt efter slægt."
Jeg er og Jahve er det samme navn.
Katarin@

Det er altså ikke kun Jehovas Vidner der mener Guds navn er Jehova!

"den der har set Jesus har set Faderen"
Når du ser dig selv i et spejl, er det en reflektion af dig selv. Det er ikke automatisk en ekstra af dig, vel?
Jesus genspejlede sin faders egenskaber så fuldkomment, at han med rette kunne sige; "den der har set mig har set Faderen".

Nej, nej! Det er helt rigtigt, men skulle lige vide om ftg var Jehovas vidne. Jeg er det selv.

ser jeg det også.
Katarin@

Grundbetydningen af Guds navn er EHJEH (jeg er), men Guds navn betyder langt mere end det. Det betyder også jeg forårsager, eller lader fremstå. Guds navn betyder faktisk at han har en hensigt, og at han gennemfører denne hensigt. Guds hensigt står nedfældet i de bibelske profetier, og hans navn står som en garanti for at de bliver gennemført.
I Johannes 8:24 siger Jesus: "Derfor siger jeg til jer, at I skal dø i jeres synder; thi hvis I ikke tror at jeg er den jeg er, skal I dø i jeres synder."
Farisæerne havde ikke spurgt Jesus: Hvad hedder du? Jesus havde sagt: "Jeg er verdens lys." (Joh.8:12) Og så var det, at farisæerne fór i hovedet på ham, og Jesus sagde: Hvis i ikke tror at jeg er den jeg er (altså verdens lys) skal i dø i jeres synder.

For Jesus ville aldrig sige at nogen skulle dø pga.
synd, så Bibelen er helt sikkert tilpasset af andre
efter hans tid.

Har du nogensinde tænkt på hvorfor menneskene ældes og dør? Bibelen fortæller os, at syndens løn er døden. Når Jesus siger til farisæerne, at de skal dø i deres synder, så betyder det, at de ikke kan opnå tilgivelse, når de ikke tror på at Jesus Kristus er den han er. Ved at tro på Jesus Kristus kan vi få tilgivelse for vore synder.
Med venlig hilsen, ftg.

Nu må jeg vidst hellere se at få mig et brugernavn herinde. Nu er der jo kommet en ekstra Anonym der er Jehovas Vidne.
Jeg går i gang med at lede med det samme!

rammer jo os alle, både syndere og ikke-syndere. Forskellen er vel hvor vi kommer hen, Himmel eller Helvede. For så vidt jeg ved dør også Jehovas Vidner da også, som vi andre. Så man kan vel ikke komme bare og sige at husk på at syndens løn er døden. Tror Skt. Paulus mener at det er døden ikke at have et forhold til Gud, for så bliver livet trist, mørkt og tomt og Uden mening. For den fysiske død møder vi vel alle... Men vi der tror får jo evigt liv - men vi skal jo alle begraves, brændes eller hvad vi nu skal...
Gud velsigne jer alle.
Katarin@

"rammer jo os alle, både syndere og ikke-syndere. Forskellen er vel hvor vi kommer hen, Himmel eller Helvede."
Jamen vi er jo alle syndere. Derfor kan ikke-syndere (fuldkomne) ikke findes på jordes... Endnu.
"For så vidt jeg ved dør også Jehovas Vidner da også, som vi andre. Så man kan vel ikke komme bare og sige at husk på at syndens løn er døden."
Igen.. Alle har nedarvet den adamitiske synd. Altså går vi alle døden i møde. Men Jesus har ved sin genløsning givet mulighed for en opstandelse af de døde, men omkring Harmagedonslaget omtalt i Åbenbaringen vil enkelte retfærdige jo overleve, og dermed aldrig se døden.
Mvh brp - tidligere Anonym

Jeg genopstod sidste gang for 40 år siden, for livet
er en stor cyklus. Vi får jo både nyt udseende, navn, evner
og familie mv. ;)

Det er ike noget bevis for, at navnet er Jehova.

Jehova forekommer næsten 7.000 gange i Bibelen.

Jo, det kan meget vel være sådan, men det er stadig ikke noget bevis for, hvordan navnet udtales.

The Great Jehovah
(c) Copyright By Massimo Franceschini all the rights reserved.
Go back to the Bible and the Book of Mormon
The Great Jehovah
Is Jehova the Father, how the Jehova's witnesses mantain or just Jesus?
The first time that the name Jehovah appears in the Bible is soon after Adam and Eve were driven out from the garden of Eden. In the first chapters of the Bible, the most used name for God was Elohim. However, after chapter 4, the name used for God became Jehovah and Adonay. It is clear to me that from the time Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden of Eden, at that moment the Great Mediator between man and God became the Lord Jehovah. I know this can be somewhat confusing to most Christians, especially the Jehovah's witnesses, but we will look at the Bible and we see what it tells us.

According to what we read in the scriptures, our Lord had many names, but when He presented Himself to Moses He used the name "Jehovah" (meaning "I am") to identify Himself. This name sounded very strange to me the first time I read it, but when I was converted to the church and I learned more about the doctrine of who God is, the more that name became familiar to me.
As Latter-day Saints, we believe that the first principle of the Gospel is "faith in The Lord Jesus Christ." That means we have full trust in His mission, which, above all other things, means believing in His Atonement and victory over death. Death has been conquered because Christ rose from the grave as a resurrected being and He has made it possible for all of mankind to likewise rise from the grave someday. Furthermore, that means we believe Christ is still a living, resurrected person and not an intangible, immaterial, vaporous spirit.
We also believe that Jesus of the New Testament is the same being known as the Lord Jehovah in the Old Testament. I know that some Christians don't agree with this, especially the Jehovah's witnesses, but either its the truth or it isn't, regardless of who believes what. Then let's seek to find what is the truth.
The word Jehovah can be translated means "I Am." One day, when Jesus was talking to a group of Jews, He told them, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. Then took they up stones to cast at him" (John 8:56-59, emphasis added). Why did the Jews stone Jesus for this statement? Because, when He used the term "I Am," the Jews understood this as meaning that Jesus was calling Himself the Lord Jehovah. The word "Jehovah" can also be translated as, "I am that I am" or, "I cause Myself to exist." A similar thought is conveyed with the term "Alpha and Omega." Thus, the word Jehovah indicates that God is ALIVE and has the power to give life.
When God reveal to Moses that His name was Jehovah, it is the first recorded testimony we have where God declares that He is a living being. It was an reassurance to the Israelites that He was not an inanimate God like the wooden and golden gods of the Egyptians. In the same way, the New Testament gives us the same wonderful assurance that, because Jesus Christ rose from the dead, He is no longer in the grave but is still a living God. More than that, by the power of the resurrection which His resurrection brought to all mankind, we too can rise from the grave and be alive for all eternity. That is why Jesus clearly taught, "I am the way, the truth, and the life" (John14:6). (see Mosiah 15:8 2, Nephi 9:10, Mosiah 16:8, Mormon 7:5, and Alma 22:14.) So we see that the name "Jehovah" represents a lot more then a simple "I am"
In our modern age, we have the same proclamation from Joseph Smith who boldly declared, "And now, after the many testimonies, which have been given of Him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of Him, that He lives" (D&C 76:22).
Therefore, it's clear that the very name of God is a testimony to the fact that He is a living being, and not an imaginary or mythical person.
The most important thing for us to know is that He lives. And because He lives, the resurrection of the body from the grave is not only possible but is available for everyone. And because of our faith in Jesus, we can have hope that death has been destroyed. And without hope, charity has no real meaning because if we don't rise from the dead, what good does charity to us? But if we want to be saved, then we must have FAITH, HOPE and CHARITY, because all of these are related in the great plan of salvation.
In order for us to understand the great plan of salvation, it is very important to determine whether Jehovah and Jesus are the same person. And if they are, we come to learn several interesting things.
The first problem we need to solve is the question of the Trinity, or God being three persons in one. It could be pointed out that Jesus said that the Father was greater than Him (John 14:28), but that can be countered by showing that the Father and the Son are one (John 10:30). It's a little bit harder to explain how the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one when Jesus was in the water being baptized by John the Baptist and the Holy Ghost descended in the form of a dove while the voice of the Father was heard from the Heaven.
It's even a little bit more harder to explain how the Father and Son are one when Steven was stoned and He saw the Son sitting on the right side of the Father. It's also somewhat hard to explain when Jesus was speaking to the Apostles and the voice of the Father spoke to them from Heaven (John 12:28). Yet, despite these incidents, some people could still maintain that it is written "I and the Father are one." On the other hand, there are certain verses that maintain that we are in Him and in the Father, making all believers one with the Father (John 14:20). In this case, we see that the "Trinity" is actually thousands and perhaps millions of people. But let's look at some other scriptures.
John 17:21-23 "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."
Here we see that all believers are one with the Father even as, or in the same way as, the Father and the Son are one. But I guess it makes a lot more sense to some people to think about three different persons making up the one God. I could spend more time and quote more scriptures about this but if you want to read more about it, read "Our God is One" at www.erols.com/crest/one.htm

But let's look at this question from a different perspective. While Jesus lived upon the earth, He spoke Hebrew, not Greek. This is important to recognize. The New Testament was written in Greek but because Jesus spoke Hebrew there are several places where the text didn't make a lot sense to the translators. To correct this problem, the Greek translators would occasionally add some clarifying words to the text. However, to show that these words were not in the original Masoretic text, they would put them in parenthesis. With that understanding, let's reexamine the verses we previously read.
John 8:24-25,28, 58-59, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning...
"Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things...
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stone to cast at him but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."
In my Italian Bible next to the word "He," in parenthesis are the words "The Christ" - like this: (The Christ). Now, if we replace the words "I am he" with the correct word that Jesus used in Hebrew - "Jehovah" - then their reaction makes sense. In other words, Jesus was stating that He was Jehovah who had spoken to Abraham. If this understanding isn't correct, then Jesus would have said "I WAS" not "I am." Also look at the reaction of the Jews when Jesus said this. It must be remembered that people were stoned only for very serious offenses against the Law of Moses. With that understanding, let's take a look and see why they wanted to stone Jesus.
John 10:31-36 "Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself GOD. (Who was the God of the Israelites? Jehovah! It's clear from this passage that they understood what Jesus meant when He said "I am he.")
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Ye are Gods! Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
We learn two things from this scripture. The first one is the key. This is the first and only time Jesus ever stated that "THE SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN." And why did He say this? Because He wanted to make sure that they would understand this glorious message.
And secondly, was Jesus simply saying that He was the Son of God? No! He was saying that he was THE LORD GOD, JEHOVAH! That's why they became so angry at Him and wanted to stone Him. It was only after He identified Himself as Jehovah that He added, "I am the Son of God."
But are there other times when Jesus made this declaration of who He was?
John 18:3-6 "Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons. Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I AM he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon as Jesus had said unto them, "I AM he", they went backward, and fell to the ground."
WHAT A STRANGE REACTION! They had all intentions of taking Jesus boldly. They why did they move away from Him and fall to the ground? If you once more put the right words in the right context you can better understand why they acted that way. First of all, most of these people who came to arrest Jesus were priests and Pharisees. When Jesus asked them, "Whom seek ye?" they said "Jesus." But then He replied, "I am Jehovah." They feared the sacred name of God and that's why they went backward and fell to the ground. If this is not the explanation, then why did they react so weirdly to what He said?
The late Elder Mark E. Petersen wrote an unbelievable booklet regarding this topic and I suggest that you read it. But I want to add some more things to what he said. Every Christian knows that the New Testament clearly identifies Jesus by the name of Alpha and Omega, the first and the last (Revelation 1:8,11). We also know that He is the creator of everything (John 1:3).
In Isaiah 48:12-16 we read, "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans. I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."
The New Testament identifies Jesus as Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, while the Old Testament identifies Jehovah as being the first and the last. The New Testament declares that it was Jesus who created the earth, while the Old Testament says that Jehovah created the earth. Are there two Gods with the same name who created the earth or is Jesus and Jehovah the same being? Since we believe there is only one God, then we are forced to conclude that Jesus Christ of the New Testament is the same as Jehovah of the Old Testament.
But notice what Jehovah said: "I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me." In other words, Jehovah was sent from another God and His Spirit. That makes three different persons in the Godhead who have three different callings. Although Jehovah was known to the Israelites from their beginning, yet they didn't understand His relationship with Elohim. Unfortunately, most Christians today don't understand this relationship..
Fortunately Jesus explained this relationship in John 17:26: "And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them."
Paul supports this concept in Ephesians 3:14-15 "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named."
Here we have another great key, Paul is saying that the Father gave the name of the whole family in heaven and hearth. The Word Elohim is plural, and comes from a singular feminine word Alah or Eloh. When we add "IM" to a Hebrew singular word, it becomes plural. However, "IM" is usually the ending of the plural masculine, but here it is added to a feminine name. Therefore, the word "Elohim" conveys the sense of a feminine and masculine power being united. In marriage we also see feminine and masculine power united and becoming one (Genesis 2:24). And it is the power of a man and a woman in marriage that is needed to create a family. Could it be the word Elohim also means "FAMILY?"
Mormons believe that all of mankind belongs to a celestial family. Paul also tells us there is a family in heaven (Ephesians 3:15). Was he also a Mormon? But he didn't need to be, because it is so easy to understand. If there is a Son of God, who is Jesus, and that He had a Father in heaven, does that not indicate that there is a FAMILY in heaven? But if there is a Father and a Son in heaven, is there perhaps a Mother in heaven as well? And if not, what kind of strange Family do we have here? I am not trying to be funny. Instead, I am only trying to understand what Paul and Jesus meant by what they said.
Another intriguing declaration that Jesus made is that He called Himself "the Son Of Man." In fact, He called Himself by that name eighty-four times. But what did He mean by this title? Was He trying to point out that His Father was a Man? Most Christians say "no", but Joseph Smith learned in his First vision that indeed God is a glorified and perfect man.
Hebrew 1:1-3
1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of His person and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

well I don't need to add nothing more.
(To understand more about this subject see "The Son of Man" at www.erols.com/crest/sonoman.htm)
Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." If mankind is made in the image of God and there is a Family in heaven, does this not seem to indicate that we too belong to the Family of God? The scriptures tell us that Adam was the son of God (Luke 3:38). That seems to suggest that we are the literal spiritual offspring of God.
But what kind of a being is God? According to many people He is invisible. And why do people believe that? Because of what the apostle John wrote: "No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us" (John 4:12). But this seem to contradict what the Old Testament says. Many of the prophets, such as Ezekiel, Isaiah. and especially Moses, saw God many times and in many different ways.
In Numbers 12:6-8 we read, "he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?"

Does this mean that the New and Old Testament contradict each other? Not at all. In the Old Testament, the prophets spoke face to face with the Son, Jehovah, who is Jesus. On the other hand, John was referring to the Father, not the Son. Obviously, many people saw God, the Son, especially when He walked among men in the flesh. Then why doesn't God, the Father, appear to man? Because, after the fall, it was always Jehovah, the great Mediator between God and man who spoke to the prophets. That is why He is called the "Word" of God. Notice that even when He manifested Himself to Joseph Smith, the Father only introduced His Son, but then it was Jesus who did all the talking.
John 17:22-24 "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedest me before the foundation of the world."
Here we see that the Father and the Son have the same glory and dwell in the same place. But more than that, our Brother (remember if Jesus and Adam are sons of God, that makes Jesus our brother) loved us so much that He gave His life to help us come live with them in the same place.
Psalms 82:1, 6: "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.... I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." If God stands in the congregation and judges among the gods, who are the gods that He is referring to? Our Christian friends say that the gods spoken of in Psalms are referring to heathen gods. But if that is so, then that means the true and living God was judging among, or, in other words, with the heathen Gods. But how can this be if the heathen gods are myths? Yet, in the same Psalm, our God clearly states that WE are gods and are therefore children of God. Thus, it is obvious that the gods our Father judges among is US! And if we are children of God, then we must have within us the potential to become like God.
But what was God judging among, or with the gods about? In Job 38:3-7 we read, "Gird up now they loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"
We're told that the "sons of God shouted for joy" when God built the earth. Who are the "sons of God"? Notice that it speaks of them in the plural sense, so it can't be referring to the one and only begotten Son of God, Jesus. In Psalms we find out that WE are the sons of God. Therefore, it must have been US who shouted for joy when the earth was created. It seems clear to me that this was what God stood in the congregation of His sons and daughters and took judgment about with them.
I believe in the words of Jesus when He said, "the scripture can't be broken." The scriptures mean what they say, and they say that Jehovah and Jesus are the same person, that the Son of God is separate and distinct from God the Father, that we too are the sons of God, which makes us all part of the same Family. More than that, we too can someday be with Him and be like Him because Jesus took away the curse of death. That's why I called Him the GREAT Jehovah.

I suggest you to read The two creation accounts
another clue

Abraham 1:15
15 And as they lifted up their hands upon me, that they might offer me up and take away my life, behold, I lifted up my voice unto the Lord my God, and the Lord hearkened and heard, and he filled me with the vision of the Almighty, and the angel of his presence stood by me, and immediately unloosed my bands;
Abraham 1:16
16 And his voice was unto me: Abraham, Abraham, behold, my name is Jehovah, and I have heard thee, and have come down to deliver thee, and to take thee away from thy father's house, and from all thy kinsfolk, into a strange land which thou knowest not of;
here Jehovah is identified as the angel of his presence and strangely even in the Bible regarding the God who appeared to Moses on the Mount it is said that
Exodus 3:2
2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush [was] not consumed.
But Moses called Him God and when he asked His name his name was Jehovah
Exodus 3:13
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exodus 3:14
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

I suggest you to take a look on The Fig Tree thefig.htm becauseit is related to this page.
To go back to The Bible and the Book of Mormon

* Jehova has joined #Eden
Jehova: Now, let's make that man.
* Jehova models some dust and clay
* Jehova breaths in the nostrils
Jehova: That should do the trick
* Adam has joined #Eden
Adam: w00t
Jehova: quite
Jehova: listen up, adam
Jehova: I got some trees up there, and one of them is Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil
Jehova: If you eat from that tree, I'll kickban your ass
Adam: k, dude, relax
Jehova: Almost forgot, I have some companions for you
* Bunch_of_animals has joined #Eden
Bunch_of_animals: Boo, hiss, rattle
Adam: Jeez, great
Jehova: erm, Adam
Jehova: You're not supposed to do that with a chicken
Jehova: nm, I'll create another companion for you
Jehova: You go to sleep now
* Adam is now known as Adam|zZz
* Jehova takes Adam|zZz's rib and builds a woman
Jehova: there
* Eve has joined #Eden
Adam|zZz: w00t!!1
* Adam|zZz is now known as Adam
Adam: ASL?
Eve: newborn, female, eden!
Adam: omg! me too, but male
Eve: omfg! you're nekkid!
Adam: so what! your too!
Eve: lol
* Jehova sighs

På dansk: Jehova
På tysk: Jehova
På fransk: Jehova
På spansk: Jehova
På rumænsk: Jehova
På tyrkisk: Yehova
På engelsk: Jehovah
På Vietnamesisk: Giêhôva
På portugisisk: Jeovà
På bulgarsk: Ieova
Det vi ikke ved er hvordan det udtales på oldhebraisk, men det er jo heller ikke særligt vigtigt for os.

Det er rigtigt, at det egentlig ikke har den store betydning, også fordi Jesus i NT siger: "I skal vlære mine vidner" og ikke Jehovas (eller Jahves) vidner. Det er således ifølge skriten Jesus, der er mellemmanden mellem Gud og mennesker og ikke nogen pave, biskopper eller et styrende råd. En del af forvirringen kan skyldes, at Ny Verdens oversættelsen er skrevet af folk, der tilsyneladende ikke er hjemme i hverken hebraisk eller græsk. Den tidligere præsident for Vagttårnsselskabet, Fred Franz blev engang en retssag bedt om at oversætte lidt hebraisk i bibelen, hvilket han ikke kunne. En førsteårsstuderende i teologi ville imidlertid være i stand til med lethed at oversætte. Det fremgår af en udskrift fra retssagen.

Yes, you can , indeed, present these things and is often don. I've seen it before. It does, however, not prove anything, because it is a matter of interpretation. And still, we do not know, whether the name was pronounced Jehova or Jahve. You say that there is only one God, then why is it so important to emphasize the name tghat much? I the New Testament Jesus told his disciples to be his witnesses and not witnesses of Jehova or Jahve.

Alt hvad der står er skrevet af mennesker!!!
Alle der læser det!læser det på deres egen måde.
plus Hvad der står!! Svarer ikke til mit syn på livet. Jeg lever ikke efter hvad der står skrevet!
Jeg er asatroende,Og det er jeg stolt af!!
Det frie liv uden at være bundet til en bog????
Respekt for naturen vi lever i!og andre uanset deres tro!

Med al respekt for din tro. Der kunne indvendes meget, bl.a. hvilken tro deter egentlig først og fremmest at tro på sig selv. ,
Men jeg respekterer dig for den tro, du har, og ligeledes alle andre. Det, jeg har forsøgt her indimellem , er blot at gengive, hvad den bog, vidnerne anser for deres rettesnor, siger og ikke så meget egen overbevisning.

Ja ja jeg husker skam min tid som tog på en anden planet - det var hyggeligt - jeg var Far (lokomotiv) til 8 børn (vogne). Min kone (styrevognen) i den anden ende sørgede for at styre ungerne bagfra, og når det gik lidt den anden vej var det så hende der traæ og jeg skubbede bag på.
Ja jeg håber nu at komme til at ligne det Tyske ICE-tog næste gang, da det ikke er så sjovt at være IC3.